All about Zoe

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Zoe
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All about Zoe

Zoe
<<COMING SOON!>>
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Re: All about Zoe

Eden
Woa

I suddenly had this feeling you would be here tonight. I must be psychic... ;)
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Re: All about Zoe

Daniel Birdick
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Zoe, I was curious enough about your story to register.
Zoe
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Re: All about Zoe

Zoe
i'm flattered Daniel. i will post something over the weekend.

nice pic.
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Re: All about Zoe

Medulla
In reply to this post by Daniel Birdick
Guy Fawkes all over the place lately.
Will you suck me off now? My intellect isnt free.
Zoe
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All about Zoe - Part 1 (of 1 maybe)

Zoe
Eden, here goes:

To start with, this is extremely boring for me to do. If I didn't want to do it I wouldn't but since it's all about me I thought I would start with that. Writing about myself is like reversing to look at the same scenery when I would rather keep going. I have been thinking and planning what to write, and now it feels like I've already done it. This is like having to do it twice. Like a homework assignment.

Education was everything when I was growing up. I'm from a middle class background, with parents and one grandparent educated in the sciences. My parents were the first in the family to be educated, aside from one grandparent, and I think for this reason it always always a big deal. I have one brother. When we were kids, they were always telling us what smart parents we had. I heard this many times.

We were smart too. When we pointed that out they would say of course we were, since we came from such smart parents! That we were extensions of them was something we were taught in various subtle and not so subtle ways since we could breathe on our own. Our first identities were as mini-me's of them.  

We intellectualized everything. Creativity was like some rare and elusive bird that would flutter in and out of our lives that we would marvel at and also always mock a little. The arts were trivial, an amusement that interrupted our lives now and then and diverted our attention from the serious business of living nine to five. With the exception of my father, however, we all dabbled in it.

In spite of the intellectual environment, emotions drove us - or more specifically my parents and brother. They would manifest like storms, appearing out of nowhere, then vanish equally inexplicably. They would have emotional tantrums when they couldn't get their way. They were unable to say no to themselves. I was the unemotional one, the observer. The outsider, in a way. I knew from an early age, from about the age of eight, that I couldn't compete emotionally with them. To get my way, I had to do it indirectly, I had to manipulate. Because they were emotionally so much louder, I had to become more quiet. I was also smarter than them which they acknowledged and also never let me forget.

Emotionally, we were like alien species to one another. Because they couldn't read me, the onus was always on me to read them. This is where I think a lot of who we are at the core is nature rather than nurture. My brother and I are a only year apart. As far back as I can remember he was very much like my parents in his approach to everything.

But I'm out of time and will write about the narcissistic stuff later.

Before I wrap this one up here are some specifics that I'm able to share. I was born in Europe. We left when I was five. I grew up as the child of an immigrant family, with most of the extended family back home. Appearances were everything. My grandfathers, who I never knew, were authoritarian types, and really mean bastards going by the stories my parents told. I'm currently cougar age-ish without cubs ha. And not married. I like my freedom. I have degrees in the sciences and work a nine to five job.    

That's all for now.
 
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Re: All about Zoe - Part 1 (of 1 maybe)

Oh, You Know
"To start with, this is extremely boring for me to do. If I didn't want to do it I wouldn't but since it's all about me I thought I would start with that. Writing about myself is like reversing to look at the same scenery when I would rather keep going. I have been thinking and planning what to write, and now it feels like I've already done it. This is like having to do it twice. Like a homework assignment. "

I relate so much to this.  I am a writer, for fun, and I have many great ideas for novels.  One story in particular I have written the first few chapters of (at least) 3 times.  I let others read them, and they are hooked.  But the problem is that I have always had this story running through my head, forever tweaking and remodeling.  I have literally played out the entire story in my head a hundred times.  So, when I go to write the story, it feels like I'm not "creating" anything, but just writing down what has already happened.  Despite loving the story and very much wanting to write it, I quickly lose interest because I simply already have the entire thing laid out, and it is a rather lengthy book.

I am wanting (and not wanting) to write an "about me" for this forum as well.  I have the same problem you have stated; I don't care to write out what has already happened, because it has already happened.
My father said he knew I was a bit off ever since he took me to see Jaws as a kid, and I rooted for the shark.
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Re: All about Zoe - Part 1 (of 1 maybe)

Eden
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That's a very good start. Looking forward to more.
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Re: All about Zoe - Part 1 (of 1 maybe)

Daniel Birdick
In reply to this post by Zoe
Zoe, we share a few things in common. One, I did that standing apart from the “triangle of family drama” thing also. I even took to calling myself The Witness. (Yes, I capitalized it.) My mom, dad and my sister chased each other around like mad cartoon characters. My dad was the dog, my mom the pussy cat and my sister the rebellious mouse. Their triangle, their never ending drama, apparently makes sense to them. It never did to me. Still doesn’t.

Second, the alien thing. It makes sense to feel that way when you stand apart from your family of origin. I took to calling myself a mutant when I was younger.

Third, something in me turned, as it were, when I was about eight or so. It wasn’t the result of an epiphany or a realization though. To this day, I am not sure what precipitated the turn. All I know is that one day I felt like a relatively normal albeit naughty kid, and the next, I withdrew into myself and watched everyone. When I was ready, I played human. Always successfully. But from them on, there was always a distance between what I presented to other people and what I thought and felt inside.

Anyway, that was a nice little reveal Zoe. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: All about Zoe

Daniel Birdick
In reply to this post by Medulla
Guy Fawkes all over the place lately.

"Remember, remember the 5th of November…" It’s the OWS thing I bet. The young idealists in America are in the mood to rebel.
Zoe
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Re: All about Zoe - Part 1 (of 1 maybe)

Zoe
In reply to this post by Oh, You Know
"But the problem is that I have always had this story running through my head, forever tweaking and remodeling.  I have literally played out the entire story in my head a hundred times.  So, when I go to write the story, it feels like I'm not "creating" anything, but just writing down what has already happened.  Despite loving the story and very much wanting to write it, I quickly lose interest because I simply already have the entire thing laid out, and it is a rather lengthy book."

Exactly. I have a novel in progress too and it's parked at the moment and will be for another several months. When it's parked I don't think about it. It's no good working on it when you're not working on it. When I'm working on it I'll do sketches and plan things out in my mind but really get into it only while I'm actually writing.
Zoe
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Re: All about Zoe

Zoe
In reply to this post by Daniel Birdick
"Their triangle, their never ending drama, apparently makes sense to them. It never did to me. Still doesn’t."

Wouldn't it be funny if you were my brother in real life?  I always found it odd how even when they were arguing and miscommunicating they were connecting, in a way I never did (with them).  

"But from them on, there was always a distance between what I presented to other people and what I thought and felt inside."

Me too, from around six or so. Drinking would close that gap and make things more normal. I guess because it numbed the awareness. Also, being sick with a cold would have the same effect. I still get super social when I'm ill.  
Zoe
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Re: All about Zoe - Part 1 (of 1 maybe)

Zoe
In reply to this post by Zoe
Thank you Eden.  

I have been reading some of your recent posts on your life and unfortunately haven't had the time to reply. But it made me think how each of us is a collection of lessons learned as well as the original user manual.

So what is my true nature? Have I unwittingly adopted habits that I would be better off without?

A weird quirk that we had in my family is that we didn't like being asked direct questions. You had to lead into it with us. It used to make me cringe inside when I was asked an overly direct (or so I felt) question. It was like I wasn't ready, like the timing was wrong. It felt invasive, almost like an assault. It also depended on the person asking. What I realized eventually was that this wasn't me, that it was a way of relating to others that I had learned. When I realized this, I got over it. Which made it also easier to disengage.

But it's still a challenge for me to not put out to narcissistic types. It's too tempting to manage them.

That's all for tonight.
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Re: All about Zoe

Oh, You Know
In reply to this post by Zoe
@Zoe  I've noticed that I am more "normal" when drinking as well. Actually, that's why I quit for the most part. I am actually quite level headed when drunk, even to the point that I'm starting to become disoriented. I am calculated, but only in situations requiring it (as opposed to being calculated even when it's not necessary). I am often able (if drunk enough) to engage in mindless small talk without the urge to shoot everyone present. Perhaps it's simply that we become too lazy to think things through when in an altered state of mind.
My father said he knew I was a bit off ever since he took me to see Jaws as a kid, and I rooted for the shark.
Zoe
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Re: All about Zoe - Part 1 (of 1 maybe)

Zoe
In reply to this post by Zoe
Continuing on...

We weren't a family that smiled much. While our bad moods manifested spontaneously, the good ones had to be extracted. If the other party won a smile, they won, and if they won, that meant you lost. It was as if even during happy family moments there was some underlying battle going on, some play for power.

My mother remarked one time how my eyes had a sparkle in them while everyone else's in the family were dull. Was dull normal then, I wondered? Was it really a sparkle or an evil glint, a sparkle of mischief?  

Why do some people have such a hard time showing warmth? It's something I've noticed in the narcissists I've known. They never beam from within. Their smiles look like masks that completely contradict what's in their eyes, like the staged grins of circus performers putting on a show and trying to stay alive. When a smile emerges it always looks as if it takes tremendous effort to hold the thing in place.  Is it because there is nothing behind it, or because whatever is behind it is too fragile to reveal? That as much as they want to share, it feels as if a part of them is being wrenched out into the open that they would much rather keep hidden.

Is it because if you can make me smile, you can also make me cry?
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Re: All about Zoe - Part 1 (of 1 maybe)

Oh, You Know
I have trouble showing warmth because I don't feel warmth. That answer your question?

For norms that have trouble showing warmth is it likely because they were raised with the idea that warmth is weakness. This is especially common amongst males. "Feelings" are left for the women.

There is likely a connection between crying and joy that is at the heart of the male mentality beyond being an emotionless rock, although this connection isn't normally made.
My father said he knew I was a bit off ever since he took me to see Jaws as a kid, and I rooted for the shark.
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Re: All about Zoe - Part 1 (of 1 maybe)

Eden
Maybe the power in not smiling, is something to do with not giving others any kind of importance. Only interesting, or wonderful people can make you smile; if to you, a smile represents some kind of vulnerability. Some acknowledgment that a heart can be found in there somewhere.
Zoe
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Re: All about Zoe - Part 1 (of 1 maybe)

Zoe
Eden:

I wrote this big long reply earlier to Oh, You Know and the screen refreshed before I could post it. And I couldn't bear to retype it all. Maybe I'll try again tomorrow.  

Anyway, with respect to what you wrote, that's a narcissist's outlook exactly. With my family, smiles weren't free. You had to earn them, or deserve them. My mother knew she always had this very serious expression on her face, and that it didn't help her professionally, yet she said she just couldn't change that. Smiling just wasn't natural. In my brother's case there was always this undertone of a sneer when he smiled. We hardly ever see each other now but I imagine that hasn't changed.

If I don't feel it I might not have a smile on my face, but I can put my self aside and respond with one to someone else's. My family isn't able to do that. It even makes them suspicious when other's smile! I've noticed that with narcissist types in general, it's very difficult to engage them in the moment. They would rather be engaged in some intellectual discussion, something that they can control mentally, unlike physical reality which only seems to get in their way and serves to distract them from the wonderful stuff going on in their heads. It's impossible to get a narcissist's undivided attention for more than a millisecond.

Did you ever notice how their faces seem to freeze in place as they get old? It's as if the mask becomes more and more visible. As if they become it.
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Re: All about Zoe - Part 1 (of 1 maybe)

Oh, You Know
I simply cannot be bothered to smile every time I'm "supposed" to be happy.  Although no one has ever noticed that my smiles are only mimicking their own smiles.  I suppose that is the beauty of mirroring; they always have the emotional reaction they want you to have.  My smiles always look sincere if someone else is smiling, but otherwise I seem uninterested despite any potential interest in the conversation.
My father said he knew I was a bit off ever since he took me to see Jaws as a kid, and I rooted for the shark.